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anagrama
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re: Calliance karma rules, etc.

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I need some feedback from anybody raiding in the alliance.

1.Theres a max points rule of 1000 but it seems it is upheld very flimsily. In other words the way it is just randomly done to certain people at random times seems like it ruins the rules validity in the first place.
What do you think are the pros and cons of the rule being upheld the way it is?
What are the pros and cons of it actually being upheld at all times? Meaning if you have over 1000 points at the end of the night your points are deducted so at the start of any raid you are never over 1000.


2. Point bonus for clearing an instance. There recently was a bonus gift of karma for 1000. I think it was way too much when we have a cap of 1000 points. I came out on the good side of it but I don't really think it was fair. Along with the max bid it made everyone even for anything that dropped off of DW. And then for the next raid it made everybody even. Which again kind of negates the validity of having karma at all at a point where karma is still very needed having not killed some heroic bosses more than one time.


3. I think the mounts should be rolled on. No bids. It should be something that everybody in the raid can get a chance at. Some classes have a better shot at it inherently because of the raid make up. For example, if there are 5 people in your raid looting the same tier piece, the guy who has nobody to loot against will always have more points and a better shot at something like this over anybody else.

4. Another thing that bugs me personally is that I was told by a fill in raid leader to get a dps armor set when I was a healer, I did as I was told. Two bad things happened to me because I did as the leader said.

I had to spec out of my pvp spec which was something I did regularly in the game and it really bugged me to lose it.
I had to spend a bunch of karma, valor, justice, thousands of gold, and a whole bunch of my time.

And for all this trouble I participated as dps for maybe 2-4 bosses total. Where on earth did this request come from? I don't think much thought, or maybe too much thought was put into this request. If anybody is told they must do this type of thing I think all items must be free. It is one thing if you actually play that spec as a second spec and pay karma for these items, but being told by the acting raid leader to DO IT and then having to waste all your karma and end up having lesser gear on the spec you actually are is wrong and weakens the raid.

5.Having a /roll raid. I am pretty sure the alt run was made rolls because they expected the same alts to come every week. That hasn't been the case and I watched some random hunter in pvp gear come into the raid and take out a 4 piece bonus. If I had needed one of those pieces and lost a roll to that hunter I would have been extremely pissed, since I show up almost every week hoping to have some progression but never getting any. Maybe I should have just left the raid if I didn't like the rules. But then how far would the raid go if everybody did the same? I think we know karma is the way to go and I think the loot rules should have been changed when the original vision of the raid didn't pan out.

6. The last thing I want to talk about is attendance and tardiness.
Lately many people just do not show up. They don't tell anybody, they don't post or they show up late and it is just overlooked. It is so easy these days to make a post to tell people what is up. Leaving people hanging for hours if you combine all the time lost from this is just not acceptable to me. Docking points for this behavior really must be the policy. Going into a new expansion with this kind of mentality that you can just show up whenever and waste peoples time is just completely the wrong way to be. What are your thoughts on this?


After trying to get some feedback from you about this I will go and post there. If there are any other things that you feel need to be brought up let me know.


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Brociliande
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re: Calliance karma rules, etc.

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1. I think the max of 1000 is too low. I've been sitting at 1000 for weeks now with no gear dropping that I can use. So I should just lose all the points I accrue for those weeks since I wasn't able to spend it? & since people aren't actually being held at the cap, I see 5 people over it right now, it seems like a pointless rule. I don't mind people being over it.

2. I thought 1000 karma was a bit extreme, but since I apparently paid 750 karma for that mount (I was unaware of that rule) I'm glad they did or I would have almost no karma now. But again, I don't think we should cap out at 1000. & I don't think they should totally reset the karma for the next xpac. I don't think you mentioned that, but I thought I'd toss that out there. I know when the xpac hits a ton of calliance people will come back for raiding & I don't necessarily feel like we should all be on the same level.

3. I agree. I would have gladly paid the 750 anyways for the mount, but I had no idea I was agreeing to that just because I didn't know that was a rule. & if bidding was a factor we all would have lost to Mickie. It just seems more fair, everyone wants it, its not gear, & they have such a low drop rate that always trying to keep enough karma in case they drop is unrealistic.

4. This is a tough rule because there are a ton of people that do use their offspec all the time. & the half bid on offspec gear hasn't really seemed to work out the way they planned it. To me it seemed like it rewarded those people gearing up their offspec & punished those people asked to have one for the run. & if we make it totally free for os gear that really rewards those people just gearing up their offspec. Then you get people just claiming offspecs for more free gear. Druids would have the run of the place!
Originally I didn't have a dps spec on my dk, but was asked to get one for her raid, the way I worked around this was the LFR & LFD system & refused to go for gear for my dps set until my tank set was full out. I think Stone got the message that I wasn't giving anything up from my tanking set to make a dps set for him. But he was a lot more understanding & also doesn't use the karma system. I actually do prefer the karma system over the /roll system since I lost a few pieces of gear to one night alt-ins because of it. But I think that's how I would get around using your karma for os gear that you don't actually want, especially since you don't ever use that spec. I know the LFR sucks, but its pretty quick, & with the new looting system it should be easier to get gear.

5. I guess technically I already addressed this up there. I prefer karma. Even if I go into a raid having no karma, I know that I wont be taking gear from people who have been there a long time & I'll earn my own karma if I stick around. Also, what's the point of an alt raid if we go into the big boy raid unable to bid on loot if something drops. If I bring my alt in for one fight & something drops for her I want to be able to have a fighting chance for it. Especially since I just locked her out for a week on any other loot chances. Plus a /roll raid doesn't reward people for sticking around. There's something about the competitive vibe of a karma run that carries over into progress. I think /roll breeds complacency.

6. I agree with this entirely. Especially if you know you're leaving for a few weeks or something, there is absolutely no reason not to let people know. When our Tuesday night raid just ended without letting anyone know, I was a bit annoyed, I had turned down making rl plans for the evening because I thought I had a prior engagement in the raid those nights. Only to find out people had left for weeks without telling anyone. Simply not showing up to a raid is probably my biggest pet peeve. Tardiness depends on the degree. 10-15 mins late is annoying but an hour is ridiculous & makes me miss having enough people to have a real stand by list because that person should be replaced for the day. I was 10 mins late once in ICC & got replaced, now we just sit around for hours waiting & hoping someone shows up soon. We should start subtracting 5 karma for every 5 mins. 10 karma if its a heroic run because they should really know better at that level. & if you miss the whole night you lose 100 karma & have to provide the mats for the fish feasts & cauldrons for the whole night. ... Something like that.


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Lailaaa
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Joined: 12 Mar 2011
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re: Calliance karma rules, etc.

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1&2. I too agree that 1000 points is too low. It is especially low when the award for clearing an instance is 1000 points. I am one of the people who suffered because of this. I had 1000 points when we did the last deathwing fight and i was way ahead of people who roll with me. After this fight all of us has 1000 points since they erased my 1000 points while rewarding them by 1000 points and i still need tons of gear. Either increase the max point limit or do not give max point to everyone as a gift. This is no different from taking out all the points from everyone. Since at the end everyone will have 1000 points, provided that they enforced the rule for everyone. It really doesn't matter where you level points, at zero, at 1000, or at 10 000 points.

Enforcing the 1000 max points rule is another issue. I understand that they might not get to do it immediately. But once they do it they have to do it for every person. I know that my points were taken back to 1000 points after deathwing fight but i also know that some peoples' points were not taken off. And i gained 40 more points on sunday and idk if they cleared that too. If they are going to enforce it they should do it to everyone. When i look at the karma site i should not see any person (in my raid or not) over 1000 points. Then i can think that it is fair. But i know people who are over 1000 points for weeks.

3. Lol i thought that the mount from the DW was rolled on hahaha. I was very sleepy at the end and people rolled and i rolled a single digit then i didnt even watch the rest. Otherwise i could have outbid anybody. I had over 2000 points. I am sure Broc is happy now that i was sleepy :D. But, in anycase mounts should be \rolled. Just as gram pointed out some people will have advantage over others. I remember at some point there were 6 people rolling on the same type of gear in a 10 man raid.

4. Off spec items are not vital to anyone just like mounts. So it might be just \roll as well. Lailaa would definitely have an elemental gear set up by now since there were so many stuff that i could get but i did not want to spend my karma since my enhance spec comes first. And i know lots of those gear went to DE since not many people can use elemental gear. And especially when a raid leader tells a person to get a certain off spec they should provide the enchants and gems.

5. I prefer karma just like gram and broc. And exactly like broc said that is the reward for showing up regularly.

6. This is one of the most annoying things for me. Not showing up without letting people know and making people wait is just disrespectful and should not be tolerated. People who show up sometimes cancel their plans to be there. There is no point of making them wait all night. Just like once Fate said everyone should be online and ready at least 5 mins before the raid. If they did not post, or let someone know that they are about to show up (restarting pc etc), and if they are not online by the time raid starts, we should start to look for a replacement. I would be ok if someone said in the forums that they are going to be 30 mins late and we start the raid late. But people have to communicate. I also like idea of taking away points for every 5 mins they are late without letting people know.

7. hah its a long post idk if either of you addressed this but karma points of people who are not active for a while should be taken away. I know some inactive people who has more than 1000 points. One day they will show up and have no mercy for the ones who has been attending regularly. >Happy.


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anagrama
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re: Calliance karma rules, etc.

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ok i will take a close look at what you guys said then combine the most important stuff and see if I can do anything about these things for MOP


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